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Helotiales on piece of board
Juuso Äikäs,
22-03-2022 21:06
today I found some tiny Helotiales growing on a well-rotted piece of board. This was a rather large growth -- a dense group of thousands of fruitbodies.
Asci 8-spored, IKI+(rb), croziers(+). Paraphyses with a rough, inflated tip.
Spores:
(5.7) 5.9 - 7.4 (7.5) × (2.9) 3 - 3.2 (3.3) µm
Q = (1.9) 1.92 - 2.26 (2.3) ; N = 10
Me = 6.4 × 3.1 µm ; Qe = 2.1
Identification help is naturally welcome!
Enrique Rubio,
22-03-2022 21:19
Re : Helotiales on piece of board
Maybe an Hyphodiscus.
Hans-Otto Baral,
22-03-2022 21:36
Re : Helotiales on piece of board
Yes, maybe, but then we should see the hairs, are there any? A section would be helpful.
Juuso Äikäs,
22-03-2022 22:05
Re : Helotiales on piece of board
Ok, thanks. I didn't see any hairs (outer edge of the apo is at the very top of the last pic). But I'll try to look at the sample more tomorrow and post some extra pics.
Juuso Äikäs,
23-03-2022 17:18
Re : Helotiales on piece of board
I didn't still find any proper hairs. There seems to be some granularity on the tips of the end cells, similar to the paraphyses in the first pic here.
There's only one species of Hyphodiscus known from here (H. hymeniophilus), which this obviously isn't. Should this be left just cf. Hyphodiscus?
There's only one species of Hyphodiscus known from here (H. hymeniophilus), which this obviously isn't. Should this be left just cf. Hyphodiscus?
Enrique Rubio,
23-03-2022 17:24
Re : Helotiales on piece of board
Yes, I think the hairs are typical for Hyphodiscus.
Hans-Otto Baral,
23-03-2022 17:36
Re : Helotiales on piece of board
Hmm, I do not see any hairs. The warted paraphyses are striking. I know that in Calycina, but my brain does not allow at the moment to find it. But that has guttulate spores and is surely different.
Enrique Rubio,
23-03-2022 17:50
Re : Helotiales on piece of board
Although the images do not come from a section of the apothecium, I think I see a very gelatinised excipulum with the warted extremities of the hyphae that compose it.
Juuso Äikäs,
23-03-2022 19:40
Re : Helotiales on piece of board
Oh I forgot about the section. Here's a couple pics of a section attempt. I also checked the pores of the board and it seems to be coniferous.
It's still late winter here and the temperature drops below 0 °C every night. I'd think that also would exclude a bunch of possible species.
It's still late winter here and the temperature drops below 0 °C every night. I'd think that also would exclude a bunch of possible species.
Enrique Rubio,
23-03-2022 19:43
Re : Helotiales on piece of board
I know it's complicated to do, but I'd say that the marginal cells are warted.
Stip Helleman,
23-03-2022 19:52
Re : Helotiales on piece of board
Hallo all,
a Intriging thing. The warted/crustulose paraphyses, reddening ascuspore in IKI and sporemeasurements/shape reminds me of Durella suecica. Unfortunate I have no notes about the excipulum
Stip
Juuso Äikäs,
23-03-2022 20:09
Re : Helotiales on piece of board
That seems actually like a very promising candidate! There are findings of it in asco-sonneberg.de:
https://asco-sonneberg.de/pages/gallery/durella-suecica-130323-01xsj34451.php
The microscopy looks very similar and the spore size fits. The fruitbodies are whiter in those photos, but these were as well when wet. And the substrate is coniferous.
I also found a couple Finnish findings from the 1940s; both had pine cone scales as the substrate.
https://asco-sonneberg.de/pages/gallery/durella-suecica-130323-01xsj34451.php
The microscopy looks very similar and the spore size fits. The fruitbodies are whiter in those photos, but these were as well when wet. And the substrate is coniferous.
I also found a couple Finnish findings from the 1940s; both had pine cone scales as the substrate.
Hans-Otto Baral,
23-03-2022 20:36
Re : Helotiales on piece of board
I fully agree with Stip, this is the solution. I actually also noted this "granular exudate" on the paraphysis tips, as early as in 1977 (HB 1770). It is also seen in SBRH 346, HB 4826 and 6571 etc.
Enrique Rubio,
23-03-2022 20:43
Re : Helotiales on piece of board
Having seen these images, I also think that Stip's solution is a good one.
Stip Helleman,
23-03-2022 21:08
Re : Helotiales on piece of board
I am happy you all agree with this option and the fact that I have seen the species microscopy again. It would be interesting to get this species sequenced.
Stip
Enrique Rubio,
24-03-2022 10:33
Re : Helotiales on piece of board
It's hard to believe that this is really a good Durella species. Is there any genetic data on it and its relationships with this genus?
Juuso Äikäs,
24-03-2022 10:51
Re : Helotiales on piece of board
There appears to be one sequence in GenBank, from Germany...
Hans-Otto Baral,
24-03-2022 11:34
Re : Helotiales on piece of board
I overlooked the sequence actually (collection by Björn Wergen).
Attached a fast NJ tree. Durella is heterogeneous, D. connivens goes with Strossmayeria and the rest with Arachnopezizaceae. Both strongly supported.
D. suecica can be black or white or intermediate, all in one collection.
Durelloideae-ITS-3.2022-0001.pdf
Enrique Rubio,
24-03-2022 11:37
Re : Helotiales on piece of board
Thank you, Zotto. Very interesting!