Kretzschmaria deusta ? - Forum ASCOFrance

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Kretzschmaria deusta ?

Amadej Trnkoczy, 27-02-2017 20:03

Hi,

May be somebody more experienced can help me. Is it possible that these pictures show Kretzschmaria deusta in a not yet mature (black) state? I know only bright whitish-gray anamorph form and completely black stoma. I've never seen something in between. Some pictures of stromatal surface like in

http://mycology.sinica.edu.tw/Xylariaceae/frames.asp?qrySectionName=Kretzschmaria&qryIDString=k004&qryPart=t

may give some hope? Unfortunately I have no pictures of section of stroma or microscopy.
Found on large Fagus sylvatica trunk (cut surface, not on bark)

Thanks for your response.
Amadej

Enrique Rubio, 27-02-2017 20:08

Re : Kretzschmaria deusta ?

Hi Trnkoczy
I pressume these are stromata of Annulohypoxylon cohaerens

Peter Püwert, 27-02-2017 20:14

Re : Kretzschmaria deusta ?

Hi Amadej,
in my opinion isn't Kretschmaria, but a Hypoxylon (serpens ?).
Greetings Peter.

Lothar Krieglsteiner, 27-02-2017 21:50

Re : Kretzschmaria deusta ?

I would say it is neither Kretzschmaria (definitely) nor Nemania serpens (also definitely). It could well be Annulohypoxylon cohaerens as Enrique says but I would not exclude Hypoxylon spec., e.g. H. fragiforme. In this (quite unripe) stage it is quite difficult to say much without using KOH - the colour of the soluble pigments would help!

Regards from Lothar

Amadej Trnkoczy, 27-02-2017 22:14

Re : Kretzschmaria deusta ?

Thank you very much to all three! Hypoxylon fragiforme is very common here around and it seems to me different, more roundish, and less confluent and I've never seen it on bare wood but always on (beech) bark. Also what puzzles me is this radial arrangement of 'strips' of stromata in relation to trunk cross-section? Hypoxylon fragiforme seems to me more or less randomly distributed on the bark or sometimes vaguely longitudinally distributed (to the trunk length). It seems to me that Enrique's proposal quite well suits to data available to me. Of cause, pictures only are not sufficient for a reliable determination. Thanks again.
Best!

Thomas Læssøe, 28-02-2017 08:43

Re : Kretzschmaria deusta ?

Enrique has undoubtedly observed that your fungus has stromata with distinctly papillate ostioles (conical projection where the perithecia opens) and not umbilicate ostioles as in Hypoxylon fragiforme. Kretschmaria deusta also has papillate ostioles but produce darker stromata with an initial pale interior and Nemania serpens likewise but this has thinner stromata with smaller ostioles. I support Enriques determination.

cheers

Lothar Krieglsteiner, 28-02-2017 09:25

Re : Kretzschmaria deusta ?

Hello together,

yes, the papillate ostioli are a clear sign.

But - A. cohaerens and H. fragiforme often grow together and - especially on the front face of lying logs - H. fragiforme and A. cohaerens can look very similar in first appearance at first glance. They commonly grow together there and if they are still unripe and young (without ostioli) it is often quite impossible to say without KOH which one is developing. They also grow together on the bark where A. cohaerens is very common, too, like H. fragiforme on bare wood.

Best regards, Lothar

Amadej Trnkoczy, 28-02-2017 10:45

Re : Kretzschmaria deusta ?

Thanks again to all of you for interesting discussion. I've learned a lot. I understand the result of it as: this find is most probably A. cohaerens, however H. fragiforme cannot be completely excluded because the stromata is still young and therefore both species are hard to be distinguished based on pictures only.
Warmest regards
Amadej

Lothar Krieglsteiner, 28-02-2017 10:51

Re : Kretzschmaria deusta ?

It is A. cohaerens - the perithecia are papillate (I overlooked this first).

But H. fragiforme (and possibly other Hypoxylon species) can look very similar by first glance.

Best regards from Lothar

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