Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

31-03-2019 23:48

Marc Detollenaere

Hi to all, I need your help for this brown sessil

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Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

Marc Detollenaere, 31-03-2019 23:48

Hi to all,

I need your help for this brown sessile ascomata that grow on Pseudotsuga.

Hairs are cylindrical, septate and measure about 100µ,They are not ornamented. Asci measure 53x6µ and have an amyloid apical apparatus. The hyaline spores show a few small drops and measure 7-8x2.5µ. I think that the ectal excipulum consists of textura prismatica.

Any idea?

Marc

Hans-Otto Baral, 31-03-2019 23:58

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

Did you photograph the hairs?

You see nicely how larger a living ascus is compared to a dead one.

The reddening is strange, unusual for a Hyaloscyphaceae. Perhaps a Psilocistella or Protounguicularia?

Marc Detollenaere, 01-04-2019 00:13

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

Good evening Hans-Otto,

Hairs are hyaline, septate and not tapering.

Picture of the hairs is added

Marc

Kosonen Timo, 01-04-2019 08:26

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

Hello,

This reddening is interesting. Any chance the hair tip is MLZ/Lug + or glassy? The general appearance is "fleshy", and that's maybe less typical for Olla. I am not familiar with Pseudotsuga, so don't know what to expect. But, I am interested in this one! As Zotto was implying, there are a couple of this "naked hair" hyaloscyphaceous ones.

-Is that a crozier?

Timo

Jac Gelderblom, 01-04-2019 19:16

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

Hallo Marc

wat denk je van Arachnopeziza variepilosa, een Arachnopeziza zonder subiculum?

Zie bijgevoegd pdf

Groeten

Jac Gelderblom

What do you think of Arachnopeziza variepilosa, that has no subiculum? see pdf

Greetings

Jac

variepilosa

Marc Detollenaere, 01-04-2019 20:10

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

Good evening Timo and Jac,

Timo, I think there are indeed croziers(cfr last pictures) and I could not find any conspicious glassy tips nor a dextrinoid reaction with IKI.So Protounguicularia seems less likely.

Jac, thank you for the suggestion of Arachnopeziza. It fits for most findings including the croziers but according to my litterature the asci in A. variepilosa should be smaller(26-33µ) and the spores less wide(4-7x1.8-2µ).What do you think?

Marc

Kosonen Timo, 01-04-2019 20:33

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

This is difficult. Keep the sample alive, I'll get back on this tomorrow! A good suggestion from Jac. Microscopically very similar.

Timo

Hans-Otto Baral, 01-04-2019 23:30

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

The ascus base partly looks like with protuberances instead of croziers. If this is true, it could perhaps be Protounguicularia transiens, though that species should have glassy caps on the hair tips.

Kosonen Timo, 02-04-2019 07:57

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

Two years ago I got some "Olla transiens" material from Belgium (leg. Bernard Clesse). It also had very little, if any, solidifications in the hair tips. Genetically it was slightly deviant from the "median" O. transiens. (I say Olla, not Protounguicularia, but it's the same thing). This could go somewhere there. It would require several more samples to study species delimitation. --Asci shape, base & spores, in this case, fit better to "transiens" than variepilosa. But I remain unsure, not least because of the ecology. I am interested in (fresh) material if it is available! This is "hardcore" Hyaloscyphaceae if someone did not notice :-).

Timo

Hans-Otto Baral, 02-04-2019 08:28

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

The one of Bernard perhaps this?

http://www.ascofrance.fr/search_forum/47103

This is the brown variant.

With the "median" transiens you mean perhaps Stip's SBRH 895 (MH485390)? I have no docu about that.

My sequence of H.B. 6849c (inofficial) shows a 3% distance to Stip's. It is in GB as Bisporella subpallida strain HB6849A, a confusion with HB 6849c.

6849c is not illustrated but I have a short description. It was hyaline, and the hairs varied in having no glassy caps in some apos. Also a culture was made which might still exist.

Zotto

Kosonen Timo, 02-04-2019 08:40

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

Actually no, it wasn't that. It was more "Hyaloscypha-like". This looks like ordinary transiens with some occasional no-glassy-tips. I was also refering to some transiens sequences (unpublished) I have aqcuired from Scandinavia during the recent years. To me it looks like, at this moment, that there is the "common transiens", showing some variation maybe, but still easy to delimit and then there is something else, but not yet sure how to define it.

I recall Bernard posted it as "Hyaloscypha" back at 2017(?). Sorry I can't manage to find the original posting right now.

Marc Detollenaere, 02-04-2019 09:04

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

When I compare the fruitbodies with some pictures on the forum of confirmed Protounguicularia, it looks very very similar to me.

Could it be that the glassy tips are only an transient phenomenon?

Timo, I still have some fresh fruitbodies in the refrigerator. I can sent it to you tomorrow if you give me the necessary instructions.

Marc

Kosonen Timo, 02-04-2019 09:15

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

:-) I don't know the story behind the name "transiens", but the hairs are stable all right. Glassines often more pronounced in the developing hairs but there should be still something in the mature hairs as well. One or two hyaline hair tips doesn't change the picture.

You can improvise a shallow box, plastic or tough cardboard, place the fresh sample inside with some cushion and something moist (not wet), Sphagnum, paper towel etc. It should fit an ordinary letter, that's fast & economical. Insert a small dried sample as well if the sample gets moldy during shiptment.

I'll be sitting here:

Timo Kosonen

Herbarium

Biodiversity Unit

University of Turku

FI-20014

Turku, Finland

Appreciate your effort!

Timo

Hans-Otto Baral, 02-04-2019 09:31

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

And surely you do not mean this aureliella
http://www.ascofrance.fr/search_forum/47605
where you also brought transiens into discussion.

Kosonen Timo, 02-04-2019 09:52

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

No, not that one either. Perhaps a mixed population there? What I meant was this one:

"Urceolella on Rubus"

http://www.ascofrance.fr/search_forum/48202

It's sequence falls close to transiens, but not identical. more material needed. Belongs to Olla for sure.

Spore size 8-14 x 2,5-3 (!!) Also from my notes "Olla millepunctata appearance macroscopically".

Timo

Hans-Otto Baral, 02-04-2019 10:05

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

ah o.k., this one is clearly different. And interesting that it shows affinities.

Kosonen Timo, 08-04-2019 13:42

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

Salut Marc!

I got the sample today. Good condition. Not Olla transiens or any other Olla I'd say. "Psilocistella" is the working title at this moment. It has a characteristic crozier. A dense cover of cylindrical sprarsely septate hairs of even length at the margin with occasional hairs protruding further out. Hair apex often with some pressure intolerant hyaline resin(?). The pigmented matter is (atleast) in paraphyses and also below the hymenium. I'll make some illustrations and I'll get back. Finger's crossed for succesfull culture.

Timo

Marc Detollenaere, 15-04-2019 19:05

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

Hey Timo,

Using the Psilocistella key of Quijada(2014) I think that P vernalis could be the right answer

Marc

Hans-Otto Baral, 15-04-2019 20:55

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

Yes, Psilocistella isn't a bad idea! If you had free living spores I could better compare. The two samples in my vernalis folder have the same guttulate spores, maybe this was similar in yours?

Marc Detollenaere, 15-04-2019 21:40

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

Indeed very similar.Splendid site by the way

Marc

Kosonen Timo, 16-04-2019 08:00

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

Lovely! It looks like we got a culture also. The Psilocistella are very very unsequenced. I'll see that it gets better soon. I got some spore pictures in water from fresh material. I'll get back.

Timo

Kosonen Timo, 16-04-2019 08:41

Re : Brown Hyaloscyphaceae on Pseudotsuga

oh well, looks like my camera was horribly out of focus, sorry for the quality. Haven't looked at the key myself yet. I hope this pictures are of help: some live spores and ascus base.

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