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Thecotheus
Enrique Rubio, 01-06-2010 20:55
Enrique RubioHi to all.
What's your opinion about this Thecotheus species that grows on cow dung. The spores are apiculate and reticulate, not only verrucose. Thecotheus lundqvistii seems to be close to our collection but there are any reference to the spore reticulation for this species in the keys (AAs, Doveri & Coué...).
Many thanks!
Enrique
  • message #11759
Enrique Rubio, 01-06-2010 20:56
Enrique Rubio
Re:Thecotheus
More spores magnified
  • message #11760
Peter Welt, 01-06-2010 21:55
Peter Welt
Re:Thecotheus
Hi Enrique,

If I have the spore dimensions, it should already be T. lundqvistii. The ornaments can change in age, well, as shown Benkert (ZfM 2010) also Trichophaea woolhopeia.

This species is not common. We have only one fund, also on cattle dung. T. holmskjoldii is much more common on dung from sheep.


Peter
Enrique Rubio, 01-06-2010 22:04
Enrique Rubio
Re:Thecotheus
Hi Peter
Spore size fully agrees with T. lundqvistii (as my first photo says). Many thanks for your opinion.
Enrique
Nicolas VAN VOOREN, 02-06-2010 07:45
Nicolas VAN VOOREN
Re:Thecotheus
Hi.
Last year I found a Thecotheus determined as T. lundqvistii. On this collection, the spores are clearly verrucose, and measure 25-28 × 12-13,5 (14) µm (without apiculi). I didn't see any reticulum...
  • message #11764
Michel Delpont, 02-06-2010 14:00
Michel Delpont
Re:Thecotheus
Hi Enrique.

Usually the spores are finely warty T.lundqvistii uncrosslinked. Maybe you could also check if the paraphyses are hyaline.

Michel.
Enrique Rubio, 02-06-2010 14:56
Enrique Rubio
Re:Thecotheus
The paraphyses are hyaline. Aas's original description says: 'ornamented with minute granules'.
Any mention of reticulate pattern...
My fungus fits well with lundqvistii except by the clearly reticulate ascospores!
By the other hand, hypermature ascospores can to lack apiculi (as lundqvistii), they turn very opaque, but still are reticulate, never verrucose. I feel is difficult to believe that this type of ornamentation can transform so much!
Enrique
  • message #11769
Enrique Rubio, 02-06-2010 14:59
Enrique Rubio
Re:Thecotheus
Nicolas. Have you tested your spore ornamentation with cotton blue?
Many thanks
Peter Welt, 02-06-2010 19:51
Peter Welt
Re:Thecotheus
Hi Nicolas, Hi Enrique

You have so right, but similar observations can be in different genera, as do for example in Peziza. Should we just set up a new species? How many discoveries made by Aas T. lundqvistii? Zero and three species examined. If he could so capture the variation of this kind? I think not.

And so I findte it very well that such observations presented here we have a better understanding of the particular type.

Peter
Enrique Rubio, 02-06-2010 20:16
Enrique Rubio
Re:Thecotheus
Thank you, Peter. Perhaps you are right.
Believe me. I do not chase to discover new species. Only I want to try to understand contradictory facts!
Enrique
Peter Welt, 02-06-2010 20:29
Peter Welt
Re:Thecotheus
Hi Enrique,

No, I did not mean and not understood. Again, I think it's very good that you imagine your observations here. The only way we can expand our limited knowledge. Thank you
Enrique Rubio, 02-06-2010 20:52
Enrique Rubio
Re:Thecotheus
OK., Peter. Our limited knowledge...!
Thanks
Nicolas VAN VOOREN, 03-06-2010 13:31
Nicolas VAN VOOREN
Re:Thecotheus
Enrique said "Have you tested your spore ornamentation with cotton blue?"
Yes, I do.
Enrique Rubio, 03-06-2010 16:39
Enrique Rubio
Re:Thecotheus
Merci, Nicolas.
Enrique
Enrique Rubio, 03-06-2010 20:46
Enrique Rubio
Re:Thecotheus
Dear friends;
I have rehydrated an exsiccata of 2003, labeled as T. lundqvistii on cow dung, and I have observed a sub-reticulate pattern in the ascospores of one ascomata. Another fruitbody of the same collection shows me the typical finely verrucose pattern of this species.
I think Peter is right . Often we do not see the variability of the species!
Many thanks to all
Enrique
  • message #11788
Ron Bronckers, 12-09-2010 15:25
Re:Thecotheus
Dear Enrique,

An interesting discovery that shows us not to underestimate the variability within the genus Thecotheus and Pezizales in general.
You also mention the absence of apiculi on hypermature ascospores in T. lundqvistii. Did you notice this phenomenon also in other species of Thecotheus?
With kind regards,

Ron
Enrique Rubio, 12-09-2010 18:25
Enrique Rubio
Re:Thecotheus
Yes, Ron. At least, in T. rivicola I have observed this phenomenon too.
Enrique
Ron Bronckers, 12-09-2010 21:43
Re:Thecotheus
Hi Enrique,
Thank you for your quick response.
Are you sure the ascospores in T. lundqvistii and T. rivicola were hypermature and not immature?
Can you remember if the ascospores of both species were ornamented at the time you observed the absence of the apiculi?
Kind regards,
Ron
Enrique Rubio, 13-09-2010 19:20
Enrique Rubio
Re:Thecotheus
I have observed some not apiculate and ornamented free ascospores out of the asci, but allways in a very small number.
Enrique
Ron Bronckers, 14-09-2010 10:35
Re:Thecotheus
Thank you for the useful information.
Ron