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Ciboria under leaf litter
Michel Hairaud,
17-10-2024 11:14
Bonjour, Voici un Ciboria actuellement présent sous la litère de feuilles (principalement de Carpinus) en terrain calcaire.
Apothécies larges de 2 à 8 mm
Stipe naissant de débris végétaux (brindilles, fruilles, bourgeons) sous la surface du sol. 1-2 cm , poilus sur toute la longueur . Pas de sclérotes. Ces poils se rétrécissent vers l'apex, longs --> 100 µm, 1-2 septa.
Sous la coupe, même type de poils mais beaucoup plus courts.
Asques avec crochets 80-95 x 7-8 µm, IKI + bleu, type Sclerotiniaceae.
Spores 9-11 x 4 µm , 1 noyau, OCI =0
Paraphyses sans Vacuoles réfringentes, x 2-3 µm
Ectal T. globulosa , cellules 6-10 µm
Medulla T. intricata cellules 80-190 x 3-5 µm
Pas de cristaux dans aucune des parties.
Je ne parviens pas à donner une identité à cette récolte . Merci de toute aide apportée
Amitiés
Michel
Hans-Otto Baral,
17-10-2024 22:55
Re : Ciboria under leaf litter
Hi Michel
usually these Sclerotiniaceae do not grow on everything. The black lumps are probably no sclerotia?
A possibility could be Sclerotinia capillipes which occurs with 4- and 8-spored asci, but arises from a sclerotium (in my folder Scleromitrula (Ciborinia)).
Zotto
Michel Hairaud,
18-10-2024 22:32
Re : Ciboria under leaf litter
Thanks Zotto for your answer.
I had considered Ciborinia but rejected it as I never found any sclerotia (I did search for it in more than 20 apos)
Of course C. capillipes has close features with my collection , including spore size, one nucleus in 8-spored asci, asci size , croziers, lack of crystals , lack of VBs in paraphyses.
But there are also differences above the lack of sclerotia :
- I found no 4-spored asci
- C. capillipes seems to have been found in rather wet zones and in May or June as this one is an autumn find on dry calcareous soil (The Chizé forest, which you already visited -:)
- The substrate is also different . I am now convinced that the substrate here is Carpinus . New founds this afternoon revealed apos developping on old Carpinus catkins (several times) as other seem to be on very small twigs pieces . As I could not find any apo under Fagus or Quercus litter, my feeling is that this could be actually linked to Carpinus , and I did find it everyxhere I searched it under Carpinus, including at home where I had planted a couple of trees 40 years ago ! Because of its growing under the litter, it can easily be overlooked.
I attach new pics to show sites and collections.
Michel
I had considered Ciborinia but rejected it as I never found any sclerotia (I did search for it in more than 20 apos)
Of course C. capillipes has close features with my collection , including spore size, one nucleus in 8-spored asci, asci size , croziers, lack of crystals , lack of VBs in paraphyses.
But there are also differences above the lack of sclerotia :
- I found no 4-spored asci
- C. capillipes seems to have been found in rather wet zones and in May or June as this one is an autumn find on dry calcareous soil (The Chizé forest, which you already visited -:)
- The substrate is also different . I am now convinced that the substrate here is Carpinus . New founds this afternoon revealed apos developping on old Carpinus catkins (several times) as other seem to be on very small twigs pieces . As I could not find any apo under Fagus or Quercus litter, my feeling is that this could be actually linked to Carpinus , and I did find it everyxhere I searched it under Carpinus, including at home where I had planted a couple of trees 40 years ago ! Because of its growing under the litter, it can easily be overlooked.
I attach new pics to show sites and collections.
Michel
Hans-Otto Baral,
19-10-2024 09:13
Re : Ciboria under leaf litter
I checked my database for Carpinus leaves and I did not find any Sclerotiniaceae with such a spore size. But the Carpinus seeds I cannot recognise. I see sclerotium-lime structures which might be deformed seeds?
Michel Hairaud,
19-10-2024 09:23
Re : Ciboria under leaf litter
I was actually looking for Carpinus seeds when I discovered this species as I had found a couple of apos of Hymenoscyphus carpini on a seed. But none of the Ciboria/Ciborinia stipe was on seeds .
Nevertherless I am pretty sure about old Carpinus catkins as a major substrate , which my pics should show but I admit that they are not of great quality
Michel
Nevertherless I am pretty sure about old Carpinus catkins as a major substrate , which my pics should show but I admit that they are not of great quality
Michel
Hans-Otto Baral,
19-10-2024 09:54
Re : Ciboria under leaf litter
Ah, now I understand your photos, I see the blackened scales of the catkins!
A catkin-Ciboria in autumn! So these are male catkins, not seeds.
Michel Hairaud,
19-10-2024 18:04
Re : Ciboria under leaf litter
Yes Zotto.
I will ask for molecular analysis. Do the difference between Ciboria and Ciborinia appear clearly from sequences ?
Michel
I will ask for molecular analysis. Do the difference between Ciboria and Ciborinia appear clearly from sequences ?
Michel
Hans-Otto Baral,
19-10-2024 21:07
Re : Ciboria under leaf litter
Ciboria is genetically very heterogeneous but I am not sure that we need to split the genus in a strong way. Ciborinia is now Scleromitrula, because it forms a compact clade with S. shiraiana, so yes, it is recognisable.