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01-12-2022 12:53

Patrice TANCHAUD

Bonjour, récolte réalisée sur un pin brûlé,

02-12-2022 16:49

Thorben Hülsewig

Hi there,i'm looking for following Literature:Gibe

01-12-2022 23:50

Przemyslaw Drzewiecki

30.11.2022; Mochle near Bydgoszcz, Poland. Old hor

01-12-2022 12:46

Lothar Krieglsteiner Lothar Krieglsteiner

found on 8.7.2022, on the margin of National Park

29-11-2022 17:47

Jean-Claude Malaval Jean-Claude Malaval

Espèce sur Goyavier non récoltée

01-12-2022 14:13

Lothar Krieglsteiner Lothar Krieglsteiner

... on decorticated wood of Picea, near Snasa, Ber

01-12-2022 11:49

Lothar Krieglsteiner Lothar Krieglsteiner

when finding this on 8.7.2022 in the margin of Nat

01-12-2022 14:29

Lothar Krieglsteiner Lothar Krieglsteiner

Norway, near Snasa, 9.7.2022, on Juncus effusus. T

01-12-2022 13:54

Lothar Krieglsteiner Lothar Krieglsteiner

... found near Snasa, 3.7.22, on remains of Poacea

01-12-2022 13:09

Lothar Krieglsteiner Lothar Krieglsteiner

on 4.7.22, in the marginal area of National Park S

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Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
DirkW, 01-10-2022 11:54
DirkW
chers collègues,

anyone out there who could send me the following paper:

Bryoglossum rehmii (Bres.) Ohenoja
Published in: Ohenoja. In: in Knudsen & Hansen, Nordic Jl Bot. 16(2): 211. (1996).

in the north italian alps (dolomites) i could find this bryoglossum on ca. 1800m altitude in moss-cushions in a coniferous forest. spores narrow and pointed, with some little guttules, on average 12 x 3,5. after 10 days walking the material is stone dead unfortunately ...

i am not sure about the difference between b. rehmii and b. gracilis. or are they synonymised meanwhile?

all hints are welcome.

all best

dirk
  • message #73985
  • message #73985
  • message #73985
Martin Bemmann, 01-10-2022 12:19
Martin Bemmann
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
Dear Dirk,

this is more or less the combination only.

Regards

Martin
  • message #73986
DirkW, 01-10-2022 17:46
DirkW
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
merci martin! this is sparse, really ... i think i have to catch the favre-paper about gymnomitrula to understand the difference between the two taxa.
Martin Bemmann, 01-10-2022 18:41
Martin Bemmann
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
I think I have Favre somewhere. I will tell you...
Martin Bemmann, 01-10-2022 18:54
Martin Bemmann
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
The pagenumber quoted is wrong it is on page 359 (attached). But this is just another combination (valid?, IF does not have it).

p. 383 is about Hygrophorus.

Grüße

Martin
  • message #73989
Hans-Otto Baral, 02-10-2022 08:18
Hans-Otto Baral
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
Welcher Fravre ist das? Ich hatte gestern den M. rehmii-Protolog heruntergeladen. Dort wird mit Mitrula muscicola verglichen, die laut Saccardo mit Abbildung beschrieben wurde, laut IF in Öfvers. Kongl. Svensk Vet.-Akad. Förh. 42: 71 (1885).

In meinem Bryoglossum-Ordner ist ein italienischer Fund unter dem Namen B. rehmii, mit Aschi 73,1-86 x 5-7,92 µm, Ascospore 9,60-16,22 x 1,9-4,07 µm. Ob das aber stimmt oder ob rehmii = gracilis, das weiß ich nicht.

Von "B. rehmii/gracilis" habe ich eine Zeichnung, die noch nicht online war. Außerdem noch eine Skizze eines unbestimmten skandinavischen Funds (beide hier anhängend).
  • message #73990
Martin Bemmann, 02-10-2022 09:16
Martin Bemmann
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
It is the Favre cited by Ohenoja.
  • message #73991
Hans-Otto Baral, 02-10-2022 09:25
Hans-Otto Baral
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
Is it online available?
Martin Bemmann, 02-10-2022 09:32
Martin Bemmann
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
Martin Bemmann, 02-10-2022 09:55
Martin Bemmann
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
The article quoted by Favre at the end is:

J.Favre, A propos d'un mitrula arctico-alpin. Schweiz. Zeitschr. f. Pilzkunde 9 (9/10), 1949.

Unfortunatelly this issue is not available at

Hans-Otto Baral, 02-10-2022 10:55
Hans-Otto Baral
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
Martin, could you please extract pp. 353 - 362 (ascomycetes) of this big file? Although very nice, the basidios I do not need.
Martin Bemmann, 02-10-2022 11:26
Martin Bemmann
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
sent...
Martin Bemmann, 02-10-2022 12:56
Martin Bemmann
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
Favre 1949 is available for members at ascomycete.org in the digital library....
DirkW, 03-10-2022 19:39
DirkW
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
lieber martin. lieber zotto, thank you so much for the support and the material!!

what is puzzling me, is the beautiful rose colour of the hymenium, which i can't find in the documented collections.

a septation I also couldn't find.

these taxa stay mysterious. I will try to find the original description of Karst and the paper of Redhead.

All best

Dirk
Martin Bemmann, 03-10-2022 20:25
Martin Bemmann
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
Lieber Dirk,

the irregular heads and rose colour of your collections remind me (and Zotto) on Mitrula omphalostoma Benedix (see attachment).

I will send you the papers requested by tomorrow.

Regards

Martin
  • message #73999
DirkW, 03-10-2022 23:48
DirkW
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
dear martin,

wow ... this seems like a real hit. i was not aware of this species ..,

and it seems curious to me that it was named as a variant of paludosa sometimes. because ecology is completely different (no water-habitat) and also the size of the fruitbodies, just 10-15 mm.

merci!

dirk
Martin Bemmann, 04-10-2022 08:50
Martin Bemmann
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
Karsten's protologue of M. gracilis is here:


Other papers I did send to your email.

Regards

Martin
Hans-Otto Baral, 04-10-2022 17:36
Hans-Otto Baral
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
Would be good to clarify what is behind Benedix' statement "asci in iodine hardly bluing". Hope you can test IKI on your find.

I saw a deep blue apical ring in B. gracilis (Karsten said nothing about this).
Martin Bemmann, 04-10-2022 18:52
Martin Bemmann
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
Redhead recieved an isotype of Benedix's omphalostoma collection and stated that is has the same iodine reaction as paludosa.
Hans-Otto Baral, 04-10-2022 21:19
Hans-Otto Baral
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
Ah, but this statement depends on his method. He could have overlooked hemiamyloidity.
DirkW, 04-10-2022 21:23
DirkW
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
I have a quite strong iki-reaction (blue) of calycina-type! Asci are 70-80 long.

i checked the spores again and they have 9-12 x 2,5-3,5, not more than 12 long, some little guttules irregulary placed.

so that all fits very well with the protologe of bresadola to rehmii!

I think we have to forget m. omphaludosa (unfortunately) because benedix described it as a big species, like paludosa! "Mit einer Gesamthöhe von 5-8 cm und einer Keulengröße von ca. 3 X z cm gehen ihre Maße selbst u?ber die Höchstwerte von M . paludosa deutlich hinaus." - !!!

the fruitbodies of my collection measured not more than 1,5cm as a whole!!
Hans-Otto Baral, 04-10-2022 22:05
Hans-Otto Baral
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
But the colour of rehmii is carneous-yellow (careno fulvum), unlike yours. It could be that the apo size does not say too much.

Ascus length was in dead state and spores alive?

The asci in Benedix' omphalostoma are really extraordinarily large!
DirkW, 04-10-2022 22:53
DirkW
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
perhaps there is a variation in colour also not impossible?

benedix writes further about a crater-like whole at the top of the fruitbodies of omphalostoma. that was never the case in my collection!

yes, i had no living material. it was dried for ten days during a hiking-tour.
Hans-Otto Baral, 05-10-2022 09:20
Hans-Otto Baral
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
This hole I think is not a good taxonomic character, I cannot imagine.

In such critical cases I fear only DNA will help to clarify if different species exist or not.
Martin Bemmann, 05-10-2022 16:04
Martin Bemmann
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
This is text and plate (in colour) from Bresadola's Iconographia Mycologica.

The habitus and colour is quite different and shows caps that Bresadola calls "morchelloides".

Regards

Martin
  • message #74016
  • message #74016
Nicolas VAN VOOREN, 05-10-2022 16:37
Nicolas VAN VOOREN
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
My 2 cts for this discussion...
Here is a collection made in 2008, at 2500 m asl in French Alps, determined as Bryoglossum gracile.
Asci 95-107 × 6-8 µm, pars spor. 27-35 µm, croziers+, IKI+ (bb) type Calycina
Spores subfusoid, (11) 13-15 (16) × 2.5-3.5 µm, OCI=2
  • message #74022
Hans-Otto Baral, 05-10-2022 19:38
Hans-Otto Baral
Re : Bryoglossum rehmii/gracilis
good Martin, and thanks Nicolas, your microdata fit my collection HB 3532.

The omphalostoma colour is so different that I tend to believe in a distinct species.