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29-09-2022 20:26

Elisabeth Stöckli

Bonsoir, Trouvé à 2'500 m (prairie alpine), tai

05-10-2022 14:35

Viktorie Halasu Viktorie Halasu

Hello,I've found here a Hypoxylon (or Hypomontagne

04-10-2022 18:38

Juuso Äikäs

These little brown, hairy apos were growing on a d

01-10-2022 11:54

DirkW DirkW

chers collègues, anyone out there who could send

05-10-2022 16:09

JEAN CABALION

Bonjour, Qui peut me renseigner sur ce Podostroma

24-10-2021 21:50

Robin Isaksson Robin Isaksson

Hi,Found on Andreaea rupestris sweden.ascomata bl

29-09-2022 17:25

Juuso Äikäs

A finding from a couple days ago: a few white Hyme

29-09-2022 13:34

Marja Pennanen

Dear colleagues, a couple of days ago I found the

13-12-2014 21:47

Rubén Martínez-Gil Rubén Martínez-Gil

Hola a todos. Subo unas imágenes de un disco neg

26-09-2022 15:31

Zuzana Sochorová (Egertová) Zuzana Sochorová (Egertová)

Hello,please, can this be something else than Hypo

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Preussia/Sporormiella on grouse dung
Stefan Jakobsson, 23-07-2022 20:47
I made an abundant collection of some Preussia/Sporormiella on dung of hazel grouze (Tetrastes bonasia) in western Finland. It is somewhere in the neighbourhood of leporina - subtilis but I have difficulties in finding a good match.

The spores are (26.7) 27.8 - 34.9 (36.9) × (4.8) 5.0 - 6.3 (6.8) µm, soon breaking up into four part spores. The asci are (108.7) 120.4 - 151.5 (184.7) × (10.1) 11.6 - 14.2 (14.6) µm. Other details in the photos.


Ideas, anybody?


------


Update: I was wrong about the substrate - it is black grouse (Tetrao/Lyrurus tetrix).

  • message #73459
  • message #73459
Enrique Rubio, 23-07-2022 21:11
Enrique Rubio
Re : Preussia/Sporormiella on grouse dung
Hi Stefan
Why not minima?
Stefan Jakobsson, 23-07-2022 21:23
Re : Preussia/Sporormiella on grouse dung
Thank you!

I looked also at minima but the the ascus should be 80-100 µm, below abruptly contracted into a very short stipe according to Ahmed and Cain. I don't think that is a good match.
Enrique Rubio, 23-07-2022 21:33
Enrique Rubio
Re : Preussia/Sporormiella on grouse dung
Indeed, your asci appear more elongated, but you must take into account the natural stretching of the asci before the dehiscence of the exotunica.
Stefan Jakobsson, 23-07-2022 21:37
Re : Preussia/Sporormiella on grouse dung
Also, I can't see a kink in the middle of the germ slit.
Michel Delpont, 24-07-2022 09:28
Michel Delpont
Re : Preussia/Sporormiella on grouse dung
Hello Stefan

Look towards S.minimoides, the germinal clefts correspond better. The spores and measurements of these two species are quite variable.


Michel.

Stefan Jakobsson, 24-07-2022 14:41
Re : Preussia/Sporormiella on grouse dung
Thank you!

The pseudothecia are about double size when compared to descriptions of minimoides. I measured the the part of the ascus base to the lowest spore and got these results (11.5) 13.8 - 58 (101.9) µm, Me = 33.9 µm while Ahmed & Cain say 4-6 µm. The spore width is a better match with minima than with minimoides.


I also compared to these and other photos:


https://www.pilzforum.eu/board/thread/46967-sporormiellas-aus-namibia/


Minimoides is said to be a thermophilic species. This specimen was collected on grey dunes on a south facing slope exposed to sun all day, so the thermophily criterion is fulfilled. The species is on the Finnish checklist but I know no details about that.


I feel that the differences are too big for this to be minimoides. But then my experience of this genus is limited

Norbert Heine, 25-07-2022 13:16
Norbert Heine
Re : Preussia/Sporormiella on grouse dung
Hello Stefan,

this can't be Sporormiella minima or minimoides because of the long ascus stipe and a germ slit without a kink in the middle. The asci of this two species are also much shorter and broader. Sporormiella leporina has more compact ascospores never shorter than 30 µm and very short necked pseudothecia (often you didn't see the neck). In my opinion your species is Sporormiella subtilis. The size of the asci fits perfectly with your measurements (Ahmed & Cain: 120-160 x 12-14). Maybe you measured some spores where the cells start to drift apart? This could explain the measurements longer than 30 µm. We compared the species with Sp. leporina in this discussion in the Pilzforum.eu.

Best regards, Norbert
Stefan Jakobsson, 25-07-2022 14:37
Re : Preussia/Sporormiella on grouse dung
My best guess was also subtilis. But the spores... I actually got the same idea that I had measured some disintegrating spores so I measured 30 new spores very carefully taking care that all spores were intact. But that did not change the result; they are still too long.

Pilzforum.eu is my favourite site what comes to coprophilous species. Unfortunately I don't write German even though I can read it. Thank you, Norbert!

Michel Delpont, 25-07-2022 18:14
Michel Delpont
Re : Preussia/Sporormiella on grouse dung
Good evening.

Taking all the information and the latest details, I wonder if S.leporina would not be more suitable for the length of the spores as well as their shape.


Michel.

Norbert Heine, 25-07-2022 20:18
Norbert Heine
Re : Preussia/Sporormiella on grouse dung
Hello Michel, it's a difficult species what Stefan shows us!

I should investigate the species myself to be able to make a judgement. But I'm sure that this is not Sporormiella leporina, which I know from more than 50 collections.

The spores of leporina are more compact and do not disintegrate into individual parts.

The constrictions at the septa are much too deep for leporina.

The germ slits of leporina are more or less parallel and never oblique.

And the pseudothecia are without a clearly neck.

I don't know the species, maybe it's a a new one. But Sporormiella leporina I want to exclude.

Regards, Norbert
Michel Delpont, 26-07-2022 09:48
Michel Delpont
Re : Preussia/Sporormiella on grouse dung
Agree with you, but it was only a track!

Michel.


Norbert Heine, 16-08-2022 12:44
Norbert Heine
Re : Preussia/Sporormiella on grouse dung
Thank you for sending this interesting Sporormiella, Stefan!

In the meantime I have examined it and I can say it's undoubtely Sporormiella subtilis. The measurements of most spores were 27-30 x 5-6 µm, only very few spores are larger, until 36 x 6,5 µm. The large spores I found mostly in the lower part of the ascus. There were also some pseudothecia without this larger spores.

I know this speciality with different sized spores also from Sporormiella dubia. Strangely you find nothing about it in the literature.

Best regards, Norbert
Stefan Jakobsson, 16-08-2022 15:10
Re : Preussia/Sporormiella on grouse dung
Thank you your expert advice, Norbert!

I did not observe that that there are spores of two different sizes.


In Helotiales there is a length difference between living and dead spores of 6-18 percent. Or ascus width 17-26 percent reduction. I suppose the situation could be the same also for perithecial/psedothecial fungi. Perhaps when measuring living material reduce by x percent before compairing to Ahmed & Cain?


Stefan