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Louis DENYHello forumTrouvé dans les environs de Belfort,al

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Andreas JacobGood evening, due to contstant drought I started

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Karl Soler KinnerbäckFound on moist Betula wood dipped in freshwater st

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ruiz JoseHola, en excremento de jabali, tamaño de unos 2 m

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Re-bonjour,Cet ascomycète trouvé et étudié par

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Thomas FlammerI found a black cushon which might eventually be

09-05-2025 19:10
Hi to everybody.This Orbilia (apos up to 0.5 mm),

06-05-2025 13:37
Thomas FlammerMunk, Anders (1953). The System of the Pyrenomycet
Does anyone have access to an original 1958 edition (in Russian or ?Turkmen) of:
???????? ?. ?. 1958. ?????? ?????-?????????? ? ?? ?????????? ? ?????? ? ???????????? ??????????. ???????.
I have access to the 1966 English translation, but the pagination is different and I am trying to track down the publication of some names.
Thank you in advance,
James




For your issue, since Fries sanctioned it as "lilacina," I think Art F.3.2 says that is the epithet that should be kept. Even without the sanctioning, since it is a replacement name for Wulfen's illegitimate name there is no obligation to maintain the epithet as used by Wulfen, and I think Fries' spelling should be used. If Paul still is not responding, you could ask Shaun Pennycook in New Zealand, perhaps.
For the original matter, I found a library with an original edition of Soprunov's book and they sent me a scan of the taxonomic part. I am attaching it in case you find it helpful: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hpxk-NawYRzPec1TJOn6u-9dUp-jd-pZ/view?usp=sharing. I fear most if not all of his names are invalid, looking at it.

I think the whole issue hinges on which names are sanctioned. Sanctioning (per Article F.3.1) only applies to the specific names adopted by Persoon or Fries in the sanctioning work. In this particular case, the sanctioned name is Peziza lilacina and not Helvella lilacea/lilacina Wulf. To give another example, in the case of Boletus brumalis Pers. and Polyporus brumalis (Pers.) Fr., Polyporus brumalis is sanctioned, but Boletus brumalis is not. Article F.3.4 therefore does not apply to Helvella lilacea/lilacina Wulf. or Boletus brumalis Pers.
If you interpret what Fries did as publishing a replacement name, then Wulfen's Helvella lilacea is legitimate, but Fries' sanctioned replacement name Peziza lilacina Fr. is the one that the epithet should be taken from, per Art. F.3.7. The correct name would be Ascocoryne lilacina (Fr.) Baral et al., as it is on IF.
If instead you interpret what Fries did as making an orthographic correction, the situation changes (but not the outcome). If Fries was correcting Helvella lilacea Wulf. to Helvella lilacina Wulf., then H. lilacina Wulf. 1787 is a later homonym of Helvella lilacina Batsch 1786. Without the protection of Art. F.3.4, Wulfen's name is then illegitimate as a later homonym, and again Fries' Peziza lilacina is a replacement name for the illegitimate "Helvella lilacina Wulf." The epithet is then to be taken from Fries name, and the correct name is Ascocoryne lilacina (Fr.) Baral et al. again.
If is my belief, since Fries cited Wulfen's name as "Elv. lilacina. Wulf. in Jacqu. Coll. p. 347." (https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/4335230#page/146/mode/1up), that this latter view is the one to take as Fries (either mistakenly or not) thought this was the way Wulfen's name was spelled or ought to have been spelled. He did something similar under the name Hydnum barba-jovis (https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/4338561#page/485/mode/1up) where no mention is made of the fact that Bulliard originally published the name as "barba-jobi" (https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/25379#page/7/mode/1up). This is just my opinion, though; other people may feel differently about it.
You are right that Art. F.9 does not apply here, and I do not think Art. 60 does either (perhaps something in it does and I am missing it, though; as you say, it is very long). I am of the opinion that in any case, the correct name is the one you published in 2020, Ascocoryne lilacina (Fr.) Baral et al.

The prior publication of Peziza lilacea by de Lamarck and de Candolle is a good catch; here, I assume: https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/104010#page/229/mode/1up? That complicates things somewhat. If you take Fries' name as a replacement name, then it is much as before: Helvella lilacea and P. lilacea are fine and legitimate, but the epithet to use is from P. lilacina. If you see it as an orthographic correction, then both Lamarck and de Candolle's name and Fries' name are replacement names for Wulfen's illegitimate name. How far should the correction extend, though? If you correct P. lilacea Lam. & DC., then Fries' name becomes an isonym, and the basionym to cite is P. lilacina Lam. & DC., nom. sanct. It feels odd to say their name is sanctioned, though, since Fries does not mention them. On the other hand, if you don't correct it, then Peziza lilacea Lam. & DC. and P. lilacina Fr. are both replacement names for H. lilacina Wulf., but the latter is sanctioned and so that is the citation and epithet to use.
Well, it certainly seems to be a complicated case. I would be interested to hear what other people think ought to be the resolution to it, and I hope you find a satisfactory answer at some point.
The prior publication of Peziza lilacea by de Lamarck and de Candolle is a good catch; here, I assume: https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/104010#page/229/mode/1up? That complicates things somewhat. If you take Fries' name as a replacement name, then it is much as before: Helvella lilacea and P. lilacea are fine and legitimate, but the epithet to use is from P. lilacina. If you see it as an orthographic correction, then both Lamarck and de Candolle's name and Fries' name are replacement names for Wulfen's illegitimate name. How far should the correction extend, though? If you correct P. lilacea Lam. & DC., then Fries' name becomes an isonym, and the basionym to cite is P. lilacina Lam. & DC., nom. sanct. It feels odd to say their name is sanctioned, though, since Fries does not mention them. On the other hand, if you don't correct it, then Peziza lilacea Lam. & DC. and P. lilacina Fr. are both replacement names for H. lilacina Wulf., but the latter is sanctioned and so that is the citation and epithet to use.
Well, it certainly seems to be a complicated case. I would be interested to hear what other people think ought to be the resolution to it, and I hope you find a satisfactory answer at some point.

That said, I would not be surprised if it was an unwritten convention to treat the basionyms of sanctioned names as conserved against earlier homonyms, perhaps by interpreting F.3.1 to apply to basionyms in some way being taken up by Fries or Persoon accepting them as the basis for their accepted combinations. I do not know if this is the case, but if it is I think it should be put into the Code more explicitly since at present I do not see what supports it.
