Sur Acer - Forum ASCOFrance

01-06-2025 09:37

Octospora

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Sur Acer

Elisabeth Stöckli, 12-02-2020 22:04

Bonsoir,

Trouvé au sol sur branches d'Acer (lisière forestière à 620m), apothécies 0.5 - 1.5 mm de diamètre, hyménium brun à noir, surface exterieur brun clair, asques 110 - 135 x 15 - 17 µm, octosporés, IKI-, crochets+, spores 10 - 17 x 6 -7 µm, lisses, brunâtres, paraphyses septées, vers le sommet fourchues et légèrement brunes. Une idée? Merci d'avance.

Elisabeth

Lothar Krieglsteiner, 13-02-2020 09:00

Re : Sur Acer

Hello Elisabeth,

this reminds me a lot of Velutarina, but maybe not V. rufoolivacea (iodine negative asci e.g.), but I think I have in my mind that there are different species now (?).

Surely, Zotto will say more.

Best, Lothar

Hans-Otto Baral, 13-02-2020 12:38

Re : Sur Acer

Hallo Elisabeth und Lothar

Thanks Lothar for your tip, this is actually possible. I downloaded the pics but had no idea.

The absence of VBs is a problem, but the new V. bertiscensis is just without them. It is only known from Montenegro on Fagus, and has indeed some resemblance, but the apos are very rough outside and globose at first and for a long time. The exteriir is of disarticulating cells with very rough exudate, images here:

Also the spores are a bit larger and more ellpsoid.

Zotto

Lothar Krieglsteiner, 13-02-2020 13:25

Re : Sur Acer

Hello Zotto,

maybe 20 or 30 years ago I found a Velutarina on Fagus - and as there was only one species then I "determined" it als rufoolivacea. Unfortunately (as often) there is no documentation. Perhaps, the specimen should be looked at again (should lie in Stuttgart).

Best regards, Lothar

Hans-Otto Baral, 13-02-2020 14:29

Re : Sur Acer

V. rufoolivacea is rather plurivorous, so why not on Fagus. Spores of bertiscensis are much larger, the absent Vbs are also a striking feature, less so the presence of croziers and the fact that the spores are ejected only when +/- brown.

Lothar Krieglsteiner, 13-02-2020 14:33

Re : Sur Acer

thanks, Zotto!

Hans-Otto Baral, 14-02-2020 22:02

Re : Sur Acer

Hallo Elisabeth

ich habe jetzt noch die amerikanische Dermea acerina verglichen, bin aber nicht glücklich. Adam Polhorsky hatte Funde, die in diese Richtung gehen, aber das ist ganz was anderes, Excipulum ionomidotisch, Asci mit Apikalverdickung und undeutlichem Amyloidring, und assoziierte Anamorphe.

Grüße

Zotto

Elisabeth Stöckli, 16-02-2020 09:48

Re : Sur Acer

Hallo Zotto und Lothar

Besten Dank für eure Hinweise. Die fehlenden VBs in den Paraphysen, zusätzlich teilweise verzweigt und J- (mit/ohne KOH Vorbehandlung) konnte ich nicht einordnen ... vielleicht doch eine Velutarina.

Anbei ein weiterer Schnitt mit Randpartie, im E. Exc. und im med. Exc. gibt es wenig bis viele Kristalle, Aussenseite rau, nicht wirklich behaart.

Elisabeth