tiny white cups on the oak - Forum ASCOFrance

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tiny white cups on the oak

Zsolt Sütö, 31-01-2018 23:44

Hi everybody!

I'm an amateur mushroom hunter. I like fungi. Sometimes I try to identify the fungi...

I know about the fungi:

Substrate: oak (probably Quercus robur). The white fruit body diameter is between 1 and 5 mm. The cups have a small stick. The fruit is dried yellow.
Spore 7.5-10,8 x 1.8-3,1 ascus 45-63 x 3.7-5.7, KI3 +, there are hairs.

Where do I look for the solution? What is your idea?

Thank you in advance.

Michel Hairaud, 01-02-2018 11:32

Re : tiny white cups on the oak

Hi Zsolt,

Substrate and habit of your collection could fit Dasyscyphella nivea, a common species on this substrate but I cannot be sure from your pictures whether hairs are soft or not in the last cells.

Amiiés
Michel

Hans-Otto Baral, 01-02-2018 12:49

Re : tiny white cups on the oak

Hi both of you

good photos!

my first idea was also D. nivea but I think it is Lachnum brevipilosum, for two reasons:
- the asci are without croziers (well figured!)
- the hairs are rather short and I see them granulated and not narrowed above .

The last hair photo is very good, it shows them in the living state. i suggest to use onyl exceptionally staining reagents, because in L. brevipilosum characteristic strongly refractive vacuolar (VBs) guttules are typical, which are very sensitive to pressure or chemicals.

You should do photos of living paraphyses and also look for more hairs whether these drops occur in the lower part of the hairs. These VBs are responsible for reddening of the apothecia when senescent.

Zotto

Zsolt Sütö, 01-02-2018 19:28

Re : tiny white cups on the oak

Dear Michel and Hans-Otto!

Thank you very much for your help and suggestions!

Sorry, Asco terms sometimes also cause problems of me. It is difficult to understand the answers as a beginner. I just heard about croziers, VBs... I have a small backlog :-)

I'm trying to find the living hair and paraphyses better. I hope to find fresh fruitbodies in the woods.

Thanks again!

best regards

Zsolt

Hans-Otto Baral, 01-02-2018 20:50

Re : tiny white cups on the oak

take care, these fungi are tricky. Externally they look very much alike but belong to different species. They can even grow together. Vacuolar bodies (VBs) are an important character especially in Helotiales. But you usually do not find them in the current (earlier) literature

Michel Hairaud, 01-02-2018 21:39

Re : tiny white cups on the oak

Yes , Zollo, tricky indeed !
Thanks . I had overlooked the hair tips thickness and did think there were croziers , especially in image 13.
Michel

Zsolt Sütö, 12-02-2018 21:06

Re : tiny white cups on the oak

Dear Michel and Hans-Otto!

Finding paraphyses and hairs is difficult, hard work and time-consuming.
The result of my search is shown in the images.

That's enough, or I'm looking for more hairs?
I got closer to the Lachnum brevipilosum?

Best regards
Zsolt

Hans-Otto Baral, 12-02-2018 23:42

Re : tiny white cups on the oak

Actually your 11. photo of the last series shows VB-guttules in the lower living cell. These would be seen in every hair and also in the paraphyses if the fungus is in good state and alive.
Zotto

Zsolt Sütö, 14-02-2018 08:51

Re : tiny white cups on the oak

Dear Zotto!

Thank you!

Now I know what the VB-guttules looks like, so it will be easier to look. I did not know exactly what to look for. (I'm completely new to the track..)

Zotto, you still think this mushroom can be a Lachnum brevipilosum?

Thanks again!

best regards
Zsolt

Hans-Otto Baral, 14-02-2018 09:21

Re : tiny white cups on the oak

Yes I think so. Where did you collect it, in Hungary?
You can compare on my homepage the folder of that species:
go https://invivoveritas.de/ascomycetes-illustrations/
Then select 7f Helotiales, 8f Lachnaceae, then go to Lachnum and find brevipilosum.
Zotto

Zsolt Sütö, 14-02-2018 18:26

Re : tiny white cups on the oak

Dear Zotto!

Yes, I found it in Hungary, more specifically in Debrecen (Place name: Debrecen Nagyerdö).
I have not found Hungarian data yet.

Thank you for everything: information, advice, suggestions, links!

beast regards, Zsolt

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