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Alex Akulov Alex Akulov

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Hi All,Recently I came across these minute, setose

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B Shelbourne B Shelbourne

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Riet van Oosten Riet van Oosten

Hello, Found by Laurens van der Linde, March 2024

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DAVID MARCOS DAVID MARCOS

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B Shelbourne B Shelbourne

• Scuttelinia: Macro and habitat.• S. scutella

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Scutellinia subhirtella (?) sur souche pourrie enterrée
Bernard CLESSE, 24-07-2017 22:23
Bernard CLESSEBonsoir à tous,

Voici ce que je pense être Scutellinia subhirtella observé sur souche pourrie enterrée.

a) poils marginaux à base généralement simple, parfois fourchue :  L = 630-800

b) spores elliptiques à verrues arrondies denses : 19,5-22x12-13 (non sur sporée !)

Qu'en pensez-vous ?

Bernard
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Malcolm Greaves, 25-07-2017 00:44
Malcolm  Greaves
Re : Scutellinia subhirtella (?) sur souche pourrie enterrée
Bernard
That would be my first choice.
Mal
Bernard CLESSE, 25-07-2017 07:23
Bernard CLESSE
Re : Scutellinia subhirtella (?) sur souche pourrie enterrée
Hi Malcolm, great thanks for your message !

Best regards,

Bernard
Hans-Otto Baral, 25-07-2017 07:34
Hans-Otto Baral
Re : Scutellinia subhirtella (?) sur souche pourrie enterrée
Hi Bernard & Malcolm
I got yesterday and earlier photos from Dragisa Savic of what he considers S. subhirtella. The spores and warts are similar, but the hairs are strongly ventricose as in Schumacher, and only 150-500 µm long.

I wonder, do you have a photo of the living spores? The abundant oil drops are relatively small in Dragisa's samples.
Zotto
Savic Dragisa, 25-07-2017 09:07
Re : Scutellinia subhirtella (?) sur souche pourrie enterrée
Hi,
I found S.subhirtella twice this year. Both samples were found outside the forest, the first on the ground under the reeds and the other on the shore of the artificial lake. Here are the pictures and compare. Spores are somewhat bigger in the first sample than in the other.
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Malcolm Greaves, 25-07-2017 13:36
Malcolm  Greaves
Re : Scutellinia subhirtella (?) sur souche pourrie enterrée
Bernard
Try for a spore print. The length and width of a few more hairs might also help.
Zotto looking at the length suggested by the various papers and keys we can find a good range
Schumacher has max 950  but most 650 x 34 with spores 23.4 x 14.8 max having regularly distributed warts
Benat has the hairs over 500 and spores 24 x 15 and evenly distributed warts
an article in Persoonia (Paal, Kullman and Huijser) has a description of two forms of S subhirtella the first with spores up to 24 x 17.5 and hairs 720 x 34 the second spores 21.8 x 15 with confluent warts and hairs up to 1000 x 33
Depending which details you choose you could rule each of these three finds both in or out of the limits of S subhirtella.
Not an easy group;)
Mal
Ps I still think S subhirtella is the best fit
Bernard CLESSE, 25-07-2017 14:07
Bernard CLESSE
Re : Scutellinia subhirtella (?) sur souche pourrie enterrée
OK Zotto and Malcolm, thank you for the new pictures and explanations !

I will recheck the hairs and spores dimensions, hoping for a spore print.

Bernard

Hans-Otto Baral, 25-07-2017 15:44
Hans-Otto Baral
Re : Scutellinia subhirtella (?) sur souche pourrie enterrée
Thanks Mal
this was my suspicion that it is not an easy species.

Thanks Dragisa for reviewing the second find. It must be added that this is from a rehydrated apo, while the first from fresh. Therefore the spore contents severely changed.

The hairs in the second find are not ventricose?

Zotto
Bernard CLESSE, 26-07-2017 09:23
Bernard CLESSE
Re : Scutellinia subhirtella (?) sur souche pourrie enterrée
Hi Zotto and Malcolm,

I got a spore print and I measured 20 spores : 
Maximum length : 21
Minimum length : 18,5
Maximum width : 15,5
Minimum width : 11,5
Average : 19.85x12.82

I also rechecked the marginal hairs:
Maximum length : 760
Simple or forked base
I did not find their base specifically ventricose.

Bernard

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Hans-Otto Baral, 26-07-2017 10:09
Hans-Otto Baral
Re : Scutellinia subhirtella (?) sur souche pourrie enterrée
Good! But you did not observe living spores in water for their contents?
Bernard CLESSE, 26-07-2017 21:49
Bernard CLESSE
Re : Scutellinia subhirtella (?) sur souche pourrie enterrée
Sorry Zotto,

Here are the pictures…

Bernard
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Hans-Otto Baral, 27-07-2017 08:05
Hans-Otto Baral
Re : Scutellinia subhirtella (?) sur souche pourrie enterrée
Ah thanks! Splendid, so the drops are relatively small though quite normal for the genus.