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¿Orbilia crenatomarginata?
Salvador Tello,
26-10-2013 23:50
He encontrado este hongo creciendo en madera de Populus nigra, en las Sierras de Cazorla (Jaén), pienso que puede ser Orbilia crenatomarginata, ¿que opinais vosotros?.
Apotecios hasta de 600 µm, con el margen crenulado. Excípulo ectal de textura globulosa. Ascas de (25,38) 26,06 - 32,34 (32,66) x (2,81) 2,95 - 3,35 (3,75) µm. Me = 8,86 x 0,85 µm. Esporas de (7,53) 8,17 - 9,52 (9,84) x (0,64) 0,73 - 0,94 (1,03) µm. Me = 8,86 x 0,85 µm ; Qe = 10,49, generalmente curvadas y con una SB en un extremo. Paráfisis con el ápice ligeramente engrosado y cubiertas por una masa resinosa.
Gracias.
Saludos.
Salvador.
Imagen2-0013.jpg
Hans-Otto Baral,
27-10-2013 09:28
Re : ¿Orbilia crenatomarginata?
Hola Salvador
interesting collection. Possibly you are right with O. crenatomarginata, although the glassy processes are rather short, and especially the spores are only slightly curved. They should be distinctly helicooid, and the SBs no exceed 2.2 µm in length. Usually the basal part of the spores is much thinner than the main part, but this varies a bit.
In any case, please let me know the collection data. Did you look for the wood anatomy if Popolus is possible?
Saludos
Zotto
interesting collection. Possibly you are right with O. crenatomarginata, although the glassy processes are rather short, and especially the spores are only slightly curved. They should be distinctly helicooid, and the SBs no exceed 2.2 µm in length. Usually the basal part of the spores is much thinner than the main part, but this varies a bit.
In any case, please let me know the collection data. Did you look for the wood anatomy if Popolus is possible?
Saludos
Zotto
Salvador Tello,
27-10-2013 20:33
Re : ¿Orbilia crenatomarginata?
Hola Zotto, Perdona la tardanza.
Estoy recordando que en la zona donde la cogí era de Populus nigra, aunque también había algún Pinus halepensis, al estar la madera descortezada me sungen dudas, por lo que intentaré determinar si la madera es de Popus, o de Pinus, aunque seguro que tardo bastante tiempo.
Los datos de la recoección son.
Arroyo frío, La Iruela, Jaén , España
Latitud: 37°57'12.85"N
Longitud: 2°55'14.10"W
30SWH 06977 00666
Altitud: 810 m.
19-XI-2013
Leg: Participantes de la escursión de preparación de las XXI Jornadas Micológicas de la Confederación Europea de Micología Mediterránea C.E.M.M. en Arroyo Frío-La Iruela (Jaén)
Estoy recordando que en la zona donde la cogí era de Populus nigra, aunque también había algún Pinus halepensis, al estar la madera descortezada me sungen dudas, por lo que intentaré determinar si la madera es de Popus, o de Pinus, aunque seguro que tardo bastante tiempo.
Los datos de la recoección son.
Arroyo frío, La Iruela, Jaén , España
Latitud: 37°57'12.85"N
Longitud: 2°55'14.10"W
30SWH 06977 00666
Altitud: 810 m.
19-XI-2013
Leg: Participantes de la escursión de preparación de las XXI Jornadas Micológicas de la Confederación Europea de Micología Mediterránea C.E.M.M. en Arroyo Frío-La Iruela (Jaén)
Hans-Otto Baral,
27-10-2013 20:44
Re : ¿Orbilia crenatomarginata?
Thanks! Pinus and Populus are easy to distinguish: if you send me a photo of a cross break I will tell you. Break the branch or piece of wood and view on the pores. A macrophoto in the size like for small apos should be sufficient.
Salvador Tello,
27-10-2013 22:31
Re : ¿Orbilia crenatomarginata?
Hola Zotto.
Le envio una foto del corte de la madera, yo ahora (ya que no entiendo de esto) no sabría decir si es de Populus o de Pinus, espero que con esto sea suficiente y usted sepa decir que madera es.
Saludos.
Salvador.
Le envio una foto del corte de la madera, yo ahora (ya que no entiendo de esto) no sabría decir si es de Populus o de Pinus, espero que con esto sea suficiente y usted sepa decir que madera es.
Saludos.
Salvador.
madera-4x-0001.jpg
Hans-Otto Baral,
27-10-2013 23:22
Re : ¿Orbilia crenatomarginata?
Great! Clearly Populus. If it were coniferous, only minute pores were present, very homogeneous. These dense, rather large pores are typical of Populus.
Since the spores look very untypical, this collection should be further studied. Do you have it still fresh? Your docu is splendid, nevertheless I miss a thin tail-like lower part of the spores, also a stronger helicoid curvature. Damned, this variation or whatever!!
Zotto
Since the spores look very untypical, this collection should be further studied. Do you have it still fresh? Your docu is splendid, nevertheless I miss a thin tail-like lower part of the spores, also a stronger helicoid curvature. Damned, this variation or whatever!!
Zotto
Salvador Tello,
28-10-2013 04:19
Re : ¿Orbilia crenatomarginata?
El material está ya seco, por temor a que se estropease, (ya que ahora tengo muy poco tiempo) lo dejé secar. Si le interesa a usted estudiarlo mejor, se lo puedo enviar.
Saludos.
Salvador.
Saludos.
Salvador.
Hans-Otto Baral,
28-10-2013 09:27
Re : ¿Orbilia crenatomarginata?
yes, I can try to look for the spores, even when they are dead they show their shape when I find free spores.
An interesting possibility would be to take a sequence of it, because we have severak for O. crenatomarginata and also some from slightly aberrant Chinese material. So if you send me a specimen it would be good to have at least 10-15 apothecia.
My address:
Hans-Otto Baral
Blaihofstr. 42
D-72074 Tübingen
Germany
An interesting possibility would be to take a sequence of it, because we have severak for O. crenatomarginata and also some from slightly aberrant Chinese material. So if you send me a specimen it would be good to have at least 10-15 apothecia.
My address:
Hans-Otto Baral
Blaihofstr. 42
D-72074 Tübingen
Germany
Hans-Otto Baral,
28-10-2013 09:27
Re : ¿Orbilia crenatomarginata?
yes, I can try to look for the spores, even when they are dead they show their shape when I find free spores.
An interesting possibility would be to take a sequence of it, because we have severak for O. crenatomarginata and also some from slightly aberrant Chinese material. So if you send me a specimen it would be good to have at least 10-15 apothecia.
My address:
Hans-Otto Baral
Blaihofstr. 42
D-72074 Tübingen
Germany
An interesting possibility would be to take a sequence of it, because we have severak for O. crenatomarginata and also some from slightly aberrant Chinese material. So if you send me a specimen it would be good to have at least 10-15 apothecia.
My address:
Hans-Otto Baral
Blaihofstr. 42
D-72074 Tübingen
Germany
Salvador Tello,
28-10-2013 23:32
Re : ¿Orbilia crenatomarginata?
De acuerdo, te mando material.
Saludos.
Salvador.
Saludos.
Salvador.
Hans-Otto Baral,
13-12-2013 13:21
Re : ¿Orbilia crenatomarginata?
Hola a todos
Sequencing from apothecia of this specimen succeeded. The ITS clustered, as expected, in a clade with O. crenatomarginata and O. scolecospora, but with a high distance (23 and 39%, respectively). However, the latter two species differ also by ~34% from one another.
So it is obvious that this is not Orbilia crenatomarginata (= crystallina).
Zotto
Sequencing from apothecia of this specimen succeeded. The ITS clustered, as expected, in a clade with O. crenatomarginata and O. scolecospora, but with a high distance (23 and 39%, respectively). However, the latter two species differ also by ~34% from one another.
So it is obvious that this is not Orbilia crenatomarginata (= crystallina).
Zotto
Salvador Tello,
13-12-2013 23:29
Re : ¿Orbilia crenatomarginata?
Hola Zotto.
Me alegra que la secuensiación haya salido bien.
Saludos.
Salvador.
Me alegra que la secuensiación haya salido bien.
Saludos.
Salvador.