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14-02-2017 02:46

Peter Püwert Peter Püwert

Hi all,this Dermea if I have in accordance with GR

05-02-2017 18:34

Stephen Martin Stephen Martin

Today I found this club-shaped unbranched ascocarp

25-01-2017 14:34

UZUN Yasin UZUN Yasin

Ascospores 13,5-18.9 µm with ornamaentation, glob

25-01-2017 14:25

UZUN Yasin UZUN Yasin

Ascospores 13,4-15,8 x 9-11 µm. Found with mosses

13-02-2017 21:52

Bernard CLESSE Bernard CLESSE

Bonsoir à tous, Sur branches mortes (cime) d'un

13-02-2017 12:59

Castillo Joseba Castillo Joseba

En hoja de Quercus,   pe parece que estan ya muy

13-02-2017 18:32

Michel RIMBAUD

Bonjour, Je suis perdu dans la détermination de

13-02-2017 22:50

Bernard CLESSE Bernard CLESSE

Sur tronc pourri de pin sylvestre, souvent sur bou

13-02-2017 13:28

Matthias Mann Matthias Mann

Dear Members, I am looking for original-descriptio

13-02-2017 21:25

Bernard CLESSE Bernard CLESSE

Bonsoir à tous,Trouvé hier sur pétioles pourris

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Dermea padi or prunastri ?
Peter Püwert, 14-02-2017 02:46
Peter PüwertHi all,
this Dermea if I have in accordance with GROVES (1946), DENNIS  (1981), ELLIS (1985) ... as Dermea padi definitely. Conidiospores 19,2 - 22,1 x 2,4 - 2,7 µm.
Now here I find these statements:

http://www.ascofrance.fr/recolte/3558/leotiomycetes-helotiales-dermateaceae-dermea-padi
http://www.ascofrance.fr/recolte/2880/leotiomycetes-helotiales-dermateaceae-dermea-prunastri
https://www.cubbyusercontent.com/pl/CC%2bAscomycota/_1354d48ffaad4b59bd3ffdbb35915d1f#CC 

Where does the error lie here?
Greetings Peter.
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Hans-Otto Baral, 14-02-2017 08:27
Hans-Otto Baral
Re : Dermea padi or prunastri ?
I fear this cannot be answered easily. Groves did not study a type of D. prunastri when he reported such wide conidia for that species. His description recalls for me D. padi, whereas his description of D. padi recalls D. prunastri as I interpret these species. I observed a high host specificity and suspect that your collection was on Prunus spinosa, right?

Groves gives several Prunus species for D. padi and merely "Prunus spp." for prunastri.  For D. padi he says that the spores are sickle-shaped to almost straight, 2.5-4 µm wide, and for prunastri +/- straight, mainly 5-7 µm wide.

One of the species  studied by Groves (Roumeguere) was named Cenangium prunastri but Groves identified it as D. padi. 

These old taxa described by Albertini & Schweinitz and Persoon and Fries are probably not documented by exsiccata and surely lack microscopic data in their description. So I think a revision is needed which defines neotypes. These should be collected in Europe, maybe in America different species exist.

The choice of the names prunastri and padi by us might have followed simply the host specificity which leads to padi for the species on Prunus padus.

I see that besides P. spinosa I have seen also a sample on Prunus domestica with narrow falcate conidia.

Zotto
Peter Püwert, 14-02-2017 20:33
Peter Püwert
Re : Dermea padi or prunastri ?
Hi,
yes, the illustrated finding was on overgrown/ wild Pr. domesticum.

I already understand the connections, but actually I should have formulated my question in a different way: Are with GROVES, DENNIS ....... to certain finding now wrongly ?
Greetings Peter.
Hans-Otto Baral, 14-02-2017 20:46
Hans-Otto Baral
Re : Dermea padi or prunastri ?
What is right and what is wrong needs to be brought out by a detailed study. First we must look whether a host species is indicated in the protologue, I did not look up so far, and I just se it is difficult.
 Sometimes the identity of a name depends on the epitype that is proposed.